Curse

griffinz · Dec 24, 2006, 01:22 AM // 01:22

I don't like spending time to investigate, but I love understanding the lore of guildwars. For those dedicated, does anyone know the connection between Abanddon and Mursaat?

For example, why is the bridge at Abaddon's mouth the same as the bridge in Abaddon's Gate? What's the significance of the bridge? What is it made of?

Do mursaat serve Abaddon in one way or another? zomg! I want to know, but I am soo confused.

alarico511 · Dec 24, 2006, 03:13 AM // 03:13

well it is remain unanswer (i think) about murssat and Abbadone bit all ik now is Murssat is not in white robe and they are no god(ha beat that mantle, get ur levle 15 warrior here so i can pwned them again and again)

mrgoat · Dec 24, 2006, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by alarico511

well it is remain unanswer (i think) about murssat and Abbadone bit all ik now is Murssat is not in white robe and they are no god(ha beat that mantle, get ur levle 15 warrior here so i can pwned them again and again)

Please to stop raping my language. It is the cry stop now.

I think the Mursaat are actually enemies of Abbadon, as they were working to prevent the flameseeker prophecies, which ultimately released the Titans upon Tyria. The mursaat worked to keep the door of komalie closed, with the titans sealed off, and we know now that the titans are servants of abbadon.

I think it's safe to say they knew about abbadon, but not serve him. If anything, they were opposed to him.

As far as I know, there's no extra lore around regarding the Mursaat and the Seers than the tiny, tiny bit that shows up in Prophecies.

Tide to Go · Dec 24, 2006, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by griffinz

I don't like spending time to investigate, but I love understanding the lore of guildwars. For those dedicated, does anyone know the connection between Abanddon and Mursaat?

For example, why is the bridge at Abaddon's mouth the same as the bridge in Abaddon's Gate? What's the significance of the bridge? What is it made of?

Do mursaat serve Abaddon in one way or another? zomg! I want to know, but I am soo confused.

I think that they arent allies. The murssat where trying to save thier land but they unleashed the titans and gave Abaddon more power....something like that

Corpselooter · Dec 24, 2006, 06:51 AM // 06:51

SPOILERS

No. The Mursaat worked to prevent the release of the titans, Vizier Khilbron, being the undead lich and a follower of Abbadon, manipulated the players into releasing the Titans to destroy the Mursaat. The Titans were created by Abbadon (Foundry of failed creations), To help Vizier Khilbron to destroy the Mursaat. So ultimately, the Mursaat were actually good (read: preventing the release of the titans), and were the enemies of Abbadon.

Guildmaster Cain · Dec 24, 2006, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Yup, on above post.

But preventing the Titans from being unleashed, meant for them enslaving all mankind and sacrificing innocents with at the bloodstones. On the other hand, these innocents might have been 'tainted' by Abbaddon already and thus could not be saved.

And what about Glint???

She was a Oracle for the gods, which probably includes Abaddon as well. But failing to notice the Players about the true evil, doesn't that align her at the side of evil?

griffinz · Dec 24, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

But what about the 'spirit like' bridge? Anyone can explain anything about that?

Let's see... the mursaat are good, since they tried to prevent the gate from opening. As for glint, she had to hide the truth from the players, because the players have to destroy vizier khibron as a part of the prophecy.

and she is not evil because after titans are unleashed she's the one to give quests to eliminate them.

Andrew_ · Dec 25, 2006, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Well, here's my little $0.02 worth on the Mursaat and some of the lore we don't fully know.

*SPOILERS*

It has often been mentioned how similar the Mursaat look like the Enchanted fighters controlled by the Forgotten, so this my theory on the possible link.
It has been discussed that the Mursaat's objective was actually good, even though how (killing the Chosen) they tried to achieve their goal (keep the door of Komalie closed and prevent the Prophecy being fulfilled) wasn't altogether peaceful. I think of them as fanatics for whom the end justifies the means no matter what.

If that assumption is correct, then it stands that the Forgotten and the Mursaat have a common goal (keep Abaddon and his followers in the realm of Torment). I think it is entirely possible that the Forgotten created or were given control of (by the Gods? Glint?) the enchanted and Mursaat before (or for the purpose to fight in) the great war between the Margonites and the forgotten. As we know, the Margonites were eventually defeated (not before turning the Crystal Sea into a desert) and the Forgotten were left in charge of guarding the Mouth of Torment and the Crystal Desert (place of ascension).

Now we know of another portal into the Realm of Torment, the mouth of the volcano in the ROF (aka Abaddon's Mouth). Now it was the Mursaat who were guarding that, right? trying to keep titans and all hell so-to-speak within the realm. I think that after the great war, the Forgotten sent their "servants" the Mursaat to guard this location. Over the centuries, the mursaat (a 'higher' form of the enchanted, self-aware etc.) began to gain independance from their masters (the forgotten) and realising their own inmense power, lorded over other races (such as the Krytans), though never forgetting their purpose (to keep the Door of Komalie closed at ANY cost).

As for the seers, perhaps they and the mursaat were once the same, but the Seers developed a higher consciousness and rebelled against there orders to "kill to keep the door closed". or perhaps they actually wanted the door opened (hence helping the players overcome the Mursaat). I'm almost certain the Seers knew what was behind that door, maybe they were even servants of Abaddon?

*END SPOILERS*

So there, if anyone wants to add, or correct me >< feel free

_

Feme Assassin · Dec 25, 2006, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Nah i dont think seers were servants of abaddon.Seers are not the same as mursaat they are different races and seer helped us to destroy the mursaats because the seers are in a war with the mursaat.
Also the mursaat were sacrificing the chosens because they knew that the chosen would open the door so they were trying to kill them all.

Andrew_ · Dec 25, 2006, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Yes. i know those facts, but why would the Mursaat want to keep the door closed? to keep Abaddon's forces trapped in the realm of Torment naturally. And yes, the Seers were fighting against the Mursaat, but then who were the Mursaat fighting? the Mursaat were fighting those trying to achieve Abaddon's will (us, even though we were tricked into doing it by the Vizier). So logically we can assume that the Seers were not opposed to Abaddon (as they helped bring about the fall of the Guardians of the Door of Komalie, the Mursaat). They could of course be an unrelated 3rd party, though that seems unlikely to me. Don't forget, it has been mentioned before, that the physical appearance of the Seers highly resembles that of the Mursaat.

griffinz · Dec 25, 2006, 07:47 PM // 19:47

That makes great sense. I agree with Andrew..

however, the 'spiritual' bridge at the end of Abaddon's mouth and in the mission Abaddon's Gate is still not explained. I think that is one of the most important mystery i would like to know. If they are working against abaddon why would their structures be in the realm of torment (Abaddon's Gate)?

Andrew_ · Dec 25, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

hmm, good point. possibly the spirit-bridge in Torment was dragged down there when Abaddon fell/was banished (like the Temple of the 6 gods)? or maybe it was put by the door of komalie before the Mursaat got there (meaning it wasn't their structure at all, just something they kinda took over). Either way, it really is flashy and impressive to look at. Sure i made some "oooh's" and "ahhh's" first time i saw it

arcanemacabre · Dec 25, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

My view on the situation:

*spoilers*

WARNING, cantains information that is entirely made up by me, but based on some facts...

The Mursaat are actually decendants of the same race that also spawned Margonites and Seers. They are all 'creatures of the Mists', and all at one time (perhaps before their split into different races, perhaps after) followers of Abbaddon.

Consider this, Abbaddon wasn't always all bad. He was the God of Secrets, right? Perhaps obtaining arcane knowledge over long periods of time simply made him more powerful than all the other gods, remember, knowledge is power. In time, he became a bit big-headed.

At this point, the other five gods determined him to be a threat, and truly evil. This caused a potential major split in viewpoints between the three groups. The Margonites became hardcore followers of Abbaddon, supporting him even though the other gods shunned him. The Seers step away, choosing no sides and ultimately retreating into obscurity (only later to be almost entirely destroyed by Mursaat).

This leaves the Mursaat, possibly with some kind of crusade to 'replace' Abbaddon and his followers, as well as the five gods, to be as gods themselves. They were known to not only seal away Abbaddon's minions, but also to declare themselves "Unseen Gods", to be worshipped instead of the other five. This means they were against all the gods, so that they could rule all.

At some point, the Seers possibly rose up against the Mursaat, maybe to try and stifle their conquest, and died in the process. Meanwhile, the Margonites are stuck in the Realm of Torment with Abbaddon, unable to affect either the Mursaat or the Seers. It's possible that the Seers' primary goal was the destruction of the Mursaat, not realizing that it may end up causing bigger problems.

Shai · Dec 26, 2006, 03:34 AM // 03:34

The 'spirit bridges' are simply souls being moved to power/feed things.

NinjaKai · Dec 26, 2006, 01:08 PM // 13:08

@arcanemacabre: Are you a conspiracy theorist by chance? Just curious. And its the White Mantle that called the Mursaat there unseen gods, not the other way around.

As far as the spirit bridges go. Considering the place is called Abaddons mouth it suggests that some part of Abaddon seeped through there. Considering the islands are now volcano striken, i'd guess Abaddon tried a little escape a couple centuries ago. As for the Mursaat, they are most probably against Abaddon, since they went to the extent of preventing the titans release into the mortal world. Considering the Flame Seeker Prophecies never actually said what the outcome would be, there are obviously those who (Mursaat) that don't want to take that chance that something so powerful and evil is released.

Andrew_ · Dec 26, 2006, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaKai

And its the White Mantle that called the Mursaat there unseen gods, not the other way around.

I agree with that statement, I don't think the Mursaat made themselves out to be gods, I think that when Saul D'Alessio assumed that they were gods, they simply took advantage of that and exploited the Krytans in order to fulfil their own goals. Remember that Saul found the Mursaat, the Mursaat never went out looking for followers. Also, I doubt Mursaat had much to do with Abaddon after his fall (with the exception of fighting him) as none were corrupted by Abaddon's taint (ie. no Mursaat are to be found in the realm of torment).

NinjaKai · Dec 26, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_

I agree with that statement, I don't think the Mursaat made themselves out to be gods, I think that when Saul D'Alessio assumed that they were gods, they simply took advantage of that and exploited the Krytans in order to fulfil their own goals. Remember that Saul found the Mursaat, the Mursaat never went out looking for followers. Also, I doubt Mursaat had much to do with Abaddon after his fall (with the exception of fighting him) as none were corrupted by Abaddon's taint (ie. no Mursaat are to be found in the realm of torment).

It's more there method of fighting Abaddon that was the problem most people had. Turning the chosen into battery juice for the door lock.

Maria Moon · Dec 26, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36

the mursaat not only killed the chosen to power the "blockade" at kamalie but also because the chosen were predicted to be their downfall, and also the mursaat were not out to save the world they were out to save themselves and if saving the world was part of saving them selves then that was like a cherry on top,

i read some thoughts of the chosen actually being "tainted" by abbadon and thats why the mursaat would kill them, but, that would mean the our characters are 'tainted' as they are after all chosen as said at the sanctum cay mission and also that is why our characters ascended as only chosen could.

i u must also remember that concerning the bridge, tha alot of the structures in the realm of torment are alike to the real world conter parts, the realm of torment is after all a realm witch has "abbadons version" of areas in elona and so on just like kormirs says when u first arrive there.

Spoiler

the seers could not have exactly been working for abbadon as u must remember in the last mission of prophecies, hell's precipice the bonus is to destroy the titan leaders and the bonus is given to u by a seer.

i will not even speak about glint cause as shown in many other threads her actions are very questionable at times, and she often "hides" information uneccesarily.

if i sounded rude at any time plz forgive me i dont ever mean to,
and that was my 2 cents worth

griffinz · Dec 26, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

My view on the situation:

*spoilers*

WARNING, cantains information that is entirely made up by me, but based on some facts...

The Mursaat are actually decendants of the same race that also spawned Margonites and Seers. They are all 'creatures of the Mists', and all at one time (perhaps before their split into different races, perhaps after) followers of Abbaddon.

Consider this, Abbaddon wasn't always all bad. He was the God of Secrets, right? Perhaps obtaining arcane knowledge over long periods of time simply made him more powerful than all the other gods, remember, knowledge is power. In time, he became a bit big-headed.

At this point, the other five gods determined him to be a threat, and truly evil. This caused a potential major split in viewpoints between the three groups. The Margonites became hardcore followers of Abbaddon, supporting him even though the other gods shunned him. The Seers step away, choosing no sides and ultimately retreating into obscurity (only later to be almost entirely destroyed by Mursaat).

This leaves the Mursaat, possibly with some kind of crusade to 'replace' Abbaddon and his followers, as well as the five gods, to be as gods themselves. They were known to not only seal away Abbaddon's minions, but also to declare themselves "Unseen Gods", to be worshipped instead of the other five. This means they were against all the gods, so that they could rule all.

At some point, the Seers possibly rose up against the Mursaat, maybe to try and stifle their conquest, and died in the process. Meanwhile, the Margonites are stuck in the Realm of Torment with Abbaddon, unable to affect either the Mursaat or the Seers. It's possible that the Seers' primary goal was the destruction of the Mursaat, not realizing that it may end up causing bigger problems.

Love this Story, although some points may not be realistic, it makes a great lore.

arcanemacabre · Dec 26, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaKai

@arcanemacabre: Are you a conspiracy theorist by chance? Just curious. And its the White Mantle that called the Mursaat there unseen gods, not the other way around.

Ahh, but they never corrected them! They certainly perpetuated the ruse. Yes, Saul did find them, not the other way around, but that doesn't mean they didn't set themselves out to be found. How else were they planning on suckering in the chosen?

You could really look at the Mursaat vs Titans in two different lights: Were they keeping the Titans at bay because they knew the Titans were destructive and would "end the world of men"? Or... is it because they themselves could not control/destroy the Titans and could end up being the only thing that could stop them?

Remember Villany of Galrath? Galrath was a White Mantle Knight who was trying to "break-in" to the floating castle down in Kessex. It is my belief that that is where Khilbron "lived", and housed the Scepter after he acquired it. This would also imply that the White Mantle knew about the scepter and what it was for, and implies even further that the Mursaat were trying to get their hands on it.

Now, why would the Mursaat be trying to get the Scepter? Surely they couldn't destroy it, not even Glint could destroy it, only re-locate it. This means they were probably planning on using it themselves. If they could control Abbaddon's minions, they would surely be as Gods themselves.

Oh, and yes, I am a bit of a conspiracy theorist, hehe.